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Post by XS Rod on Sept 23, 2011 12:56:09 GMT -5
Gears are a science within themselves... but fairly forgiving in my limited experience. To answer the question above on the replacement gear that Headcase Dan brought up a couple of years ago... The requirement for the new mating gear is as Richard stated... new to new. A new gear would not be required due to increasing the number of teeth, unless the physical characteristics of the new gear differed from the physical characteristics of the old gear. As far as size goes the new gear will have a larger diameter to accommodate the increase in teeth and not necesarrily change the teeth. I hope that makes sense. www.engineersedge.com/gears/gear_definitions.htm
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Post by headcase on Sept 24, 2011 1:03:23 GMT -5
Why soitenly. As for gear noise, that's not a problem for me really, unless it means unusually fast wear. I know rear differential gears in the car whine if they aren't perfectly lashed/blueprinted, but most times longevity isn't an issue. My main concern with the bike gear is if it'll wear quicker just replacing the one, instead of both. I still don't understand how the new gear, having a few more teeth and being a bit larger diameter, would tuck in place of the original and still ride on whatever shaft it's on without lifting the shaft a bit from it's original position and narfing the whole mess up, but I'm told it's a drop-in replacement. I'm sure I'll get the hint when I finally dig into it.
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Post by XS Rod on Sept 28, 2011 13:37:45 GMT -5
yea... even after I posted that I had a hard time with it... The larger diameter thing... if you order the kit let us know...
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Post by headcase on Sept 30, 2011 20:11:51 GMT -5
Does that mean my Bambino is now a guinea pig? Ehhhh, why not. Have to wait til spring for the verdict though. Stay tuned.........
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Post by headcase on May 28, 2012 21:54:08 GMT -5
Alrighty, time for an update. Case is apart, debris abounds and the bottom half is cleaned and ready to go back together as soon as I put the new gear on. One gear, I didn't order the mating piece...I've read and swapped messages with a few that have done it...I shall takes me chances. As a side-note: the alternator housing was removed easy enough but the rotor (pressed onto the crank) stayed right where it is, no need to remove it - for the record. It all came apart with minimal fuss. There are a few nifty little tidbits I saw along the way, like a 2 piece split washer held in place by a shallow retainer. If I can keep the d**n cats off my bench, it'll all go together good...I hope! I did spend an offensive amount of time fabbing up a custom engine perch out of good ol' tubular angle iron. (1/2" metal electrical conduit) I think that stuff should be right up there with WD40 and duct tape. If you're all up for a laugh, I would post a few pics. Do we still have to go through Photobucket or some other site to see them, or can we now load them directly to the forum? End of May and still up to my jiblets in it, hopefully I'll manage to get a ride or two in before the snow flies. Hope all is well with everyone.
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Post by grizld1 on May 29, 2012 12:43:33 GMT -5
Dan, if I were you I'd get that rotor off and replace the seal (and the rest as well). Leaving the old oil seals in there could be cause for regret later.
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Post by richard on May 29, 2012 14:36:31 GMT -5
I am really interesting in how that 5th gear turns out. In the old days we used to put white lith grease on the gears we made to check the mesh. The gears would mate up pushing the greases out and you could see how much contact area per tooth you had. Of course more contact area is always better but if it’s too deep you’ll bind once it gets warmed up. I imagine if the other guys had luck with one gear it will work for you too.
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Post by headcase on May 29, 2012 18:47:18 GMT -5
Griz- yeah I know. It's just that things are going so slow already, I just want to get in and get out. I have the seal already, and you're right. If the thing leaks once it's together I'll be out in the yard kicking my own a** for all the neighbors to see. Off it comes. Richard- I just can't get my head around how a larger gear will fit onto a shaft that meshes with more gears and not be lifted up out of the shaft bore. But...some insist it can be done, and hopefully I'll finally see the light when I watch it all go back together. Probably worried about nothing, but still....
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Post by richard on May 29, 2012 20:51:04 GMT -5
Well don feel alone. Changing one gear and not the other doesn’t make any since to me, but I guess if the mesh was on the outside edge of the teeth originally it could just mesh up tighter…..If the radius is not that different. As soon as you get the gear on and the shaft laid in place you’ll know. On stuff with a lot of power it’s more critical but the XS is about 60 HP with less on fifth so who knows.
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Post by headcase on May 29, 2012 21:27:28 GMT -5
Yeah about 50 or 60....as long as I keep my thumb off the nitrous button
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Post by richard on May 29, 2012 22:19:38 GMT -5
LOL! :-)
Or just put a turbo and fuel injection on it like this guy
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Post by headcase on May 31, 2012 19:21:24 GMT -5
Richard.... ;D I'm a fuel injection gumby at the shop (among other titles) and believe me, the idea has been rattling around in my head since I laid eyes on the decrepid bucket of parts that showed up at my doorstep. If I ever get motivated enough to whittle up a manifold/throttle plate assembly, there will be at least one MPI 650 in the world. The biggest pain for me is trying to keep all the hardware packaged under the tank so it's all compact and work-on-able. Until then, I'm all ears if you have any suggestions. Regarding the OD gear - I mic'd them both out, old and new. The o.d. is identical. Just with one more tooth wedged in there. The machining/gear terminology isn't a strong point for me, so I'll just say the teeth dont mesh as deep and by thinning the teeth out just a hair on each one, there's room for one more..24 vs 23 I think. Pretty cool concept really. It'll rest in there nice and easy just like the original did, so my shaft fit worries were baseless. The alternator rotor is the next mofo to do. I snagged a 3 jaw puller from the local AutoZilch and will probably have at it this evening some time.
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Post by richard on May 31, 2012 21:04:41 GMT -5
Yeah fuel in ejection seems like a good Idea, but getting a Mr Squirt package and crank position encoder down to the size would fit in a XS and still look good is what is keeping me from trying it too. I got a little more motivate the other day while watching the Indy 500. They were changing the lean mixture in the cars on the fly with a toggle switch. That option would sure be nice to have on a bike. There’s a lot of slop in a XS transmission dogs any way. As long as you keep it under 150 hp I think there is a very good chance that fifth will work just fine :-)
Pulling the rotor with a three jaw is pretty daring. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but I have seen them come un-sleeved from the center because It’s all just a pressed together part to begin with. I have the three jaw puller, but after seeing the pictures I decided to used the special puller from Mike’s on mine instead.
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Post by headcase on Jul 30, 2012 0:43:09 GMT -5
And another mechanical adventure comes to it's final result. The OD 5th gear does make a noticeable difference in rpm, and there is no new noise from using it with the original mating gear (I forget the technical term). It was as simple an upgrade as everyone says it is, so if anyone else is thinking of this mod, drop a 60 dollar bill on Mike's and go for it. The hardest part of the swap was making an upside-down engine stand from some high-tech stuff I call tubular angle iron (1/2" metal electrical conduit ) Griz, I took a chance and left the rotor in place, and it still does ok, but I appreciate your heads-up about it. It'll be on the upgrade list from now on. Now if I could just get that video camera to behave with those vibes and get some good quality road cinema going....stay tuned. Thanks for all the help gang - Dan
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Post by doubleg910 on Aug 20, 2012 20:21:23 GMT -5
I've seen one post about putting in this gear, and about how the case needs to be split. I'll have my engine on the bench soon to do the cam chain guide and a few other things. Will it really be that much extra work to pop the bottom off and install the gear? I'll be leaving the top end on (except what's needed to do the guide fix), but while I'm in there would I need any specialty tools or Mojo Guru advisor present to do the deed? I've griped about highway revs on a few other posts and this is a worthwhile $60 mod for me to make since I plan on some decently long freeway cruises in the future. But not if it means extensive surgery. What say ye, O Respected Elders?
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